X-Authentication-Warning: redwood.atmos.albany.edu: majordom set sender to owner-map@atmos.albany.edu using -f X-Sender: doswell@enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:25:44 -0500 To: map_disco@nssl.noaa.gov, map@atmos.albany.edu, hblue@ou.edu, wicker@nssl.noaa.gov, ddowell@ou.edu From: Chuck Doswell Subject: Re: [Map_disco] Re: map discussion items: The Kicker and the Kickee All, Fun discussion ... and one that has come up from time to time in my Advanced Forecasting class. It would be very useful for us to consider a detailed QG diagnosis ... either via PV approaches or the "old-fashioned" way via vorticity and thermal advection. As I have understood the Kicker-Kickee relationship, the approach of the Kicker induces changes ahead of it, in terms of both vertical motion and height changes. It is the downstream height changes that "open up" the Kickee, allowing its own vorticity advection to initiate movement, whereas prior to the arrival of the Kicker, there was no vorticity advection to induce movement. It seems to me that a "simple" QG diagnosis (either via PV or "old fashioned" methods) of the process should not be confined to a single level or a single time. That is, we should review the QG diagnosis through the evolution of the process for several synoptic times (when we have *data* to back up the NWP model "dreaming") ... starting with some time well before the interaction of the Kicker and Kickee, and continuing at least through the opening up of the Kickee and the commencement of its movement. Cheers ... Chuck Doswell --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Charles A. Doswell III NOAA/National Severe Storms Laboratory 1313 Halley Circle, Norman, Oklahoma 73069 phone: (405) 366-0439 fax: (405) 366-0472 WWW home page: Standard disclaimer ... my views are my own, so don't blame my employer. ..................................................................... The blitz! The pass! The caught! - Bob Barry, OU football radio announcer ---------------------------------------------------------------------